tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2473166537823294555.post1254469461447354811..comments2023-11-02T06:04:23.552-04:00Comments on Back to the Drawing Board: The Subjectivity of ValueDannyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14933199894935324897noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2473166537823294555.post-80217412218031976802008-08-28T20:34:00.000-04:002008-08-28T20:34:00.000-04:00Thanks, Alex. Rereading the post, I suppose it do...Thanks, Alex. Rereading the post, I suppose it does need a little context...but unfortunately I don't completely remember what the context was. It's sort of difficult for me to figure out what someone might have been saying that would have led me to want to address both subjectivity and interpersonal utility comparisons (maybe they were two different conversations?). <BR/><BR/>I'm thinking that what probably happened was that I was repeatedly hearing oversimplified versions of basic concepts in value theory used to attack arguments which weren't inconsistent with those concepts in their fully nuanced forms. If that's the case, I was probably hearing two kinds of arguments (the first of which was addressed in this post):<BR/><BR/>1) "You can't say anything about that person's choices! She's the only one who can judge them, and whatever she thinks is right, since value is subjective."<BR/><BR/>2) "You can't say that this policy has generally good outcomes, since there might be at least one person who's made worse off by it, and you can't make interpersonal comparisons of utility!" (This might have been augmented by the infuriating, "So it's just as likely that the policy had bad consequences overall!")<BR/><BR/>I guess I wish I could say more, but my lack of memory prevents me from doing so honestly. Hopefully that helps a little, though.Danny Shaharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16781136797017833336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2473166537823294555.post-4207401577957382652008-08-28T19:37:00.000-04:002008-08-28T19:37:00.000-04:00I'm with you in disagreeing with the last quote by...I'm with you in disagreeing with the last quote by Mises. Actually I'm both shocked and not too surprised that Mises said this. Shocked because I always hold out hope that people won't ride roughshod over logic to realize some generalization for reasons of palatability, but not shocked because that hope is usually dashed when it comes to things like justice in particular.<BR/><BR/>Good post Danny, though I found myself wishing for a bit more context. Maybe reading the post out of some larger context wasn't the idea. Nonetheless, the distinctions you make seem quite important in light of how often people mistake or subvert utilitarianism for absolute valuation, or logic for ultimate values or virtues.<BR/><BR/>I hope you develop these ideas further.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15601231548870804375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2473166537823294555.post-22579562622837556342008-03-16T17:08:00.000-04:002008-03-16T17:08:00.000-04:00The point I was trying to make is that if we talk ...The point I was trying to make is that if we talk about being valuable in the first sense, we cannot possibly criticize someone for valuing something. If we use the second sense, we can. Accordingly, I don't think we could reasonably say that they're the same.Danny Shaharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16781136797017833336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2473166537823294555.post-5067457093775280862008-03-16T17:03:00.000-04:002008-03-16T17:03:00.000-04:00The problem arises from the fact that we can talk ...The problem arises from the fact that we can talk about something's being "valuable" in two ways. One is positive: "I value X; X is valuable." The other is normative: "X would help me to achieve my ends; X is valuable." When my opponents talk about the subjectivity of value, they slip into the former kind of thinking. That is, they take the view that what is desired is the same as what is desirable.<BR/><BR/>I'd like to claim that the two ways are really the same one. The value created i your mind is always related somehow to your pesonal ends.Now since people sometimes cant articulate their end in a logical way, so they find it hard to say how the valuable thing is valuable. So you get this mix between the two.Jonatan Krovitskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03755263917070708938noreply@blogger.com